Owen Coyle

[christyldesley]

Exactly, you hate him now. I'm not defending him on today's decisions, I'm looking at a bigger picture.

If he gets 4 points from the next 6, he'll be a genius for a bit.

[DaveBWFC]

When he takes us down in a few weeks I'll hate him even more than now.

We have a fool in charge of our club.

[azreal88]

If he gets 4 points from the next 6, he'll be a genius for a bit.

No, he won't.

He will play 4-5-1 in the next two games, and we may get a point in one of those games; but will probably lose.  But regardless of the results we get, the formation will be forced on him by the quality of the opposition.

We'll only be able to laud him for the system if he goes 4-4-2 and wins a game - so god help us all, because clearly Owen feels he has to prove 'his' formation works.

[christyldesley]

I hope you're wrong, but if you're right, I'll be the first one to apologise.

Obviously by then it will be too late, but hopefully, it won't come to that.

[GarethWilliams]

Saying he can't learn is a bit of a silly thing to say. He will obviously look at todays game and see that playing a 4-4-2 with Mavies and NRC in the middle, doesn't work.

Otherwise, he wouldn't be a PL manager, would he?

So how many games playing this formation does he need to learn? check the facts, I dont think I am being silly, I am Fecking furious!! The term Nincompoop comes to mind. (Nincompoop An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.)

[bwfcbob123]

I can't believe you're trying to stick up for him Chris. The guy has proven today what a clueless and stubborn twat he really is. I hate the cúnt right now and would punch his lights out if I seen him. He's taking our great club down.

Here here!

[bwfcbob123]

I still think we'll stay up.

We're already down, and anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

[Bazzabomb]

well said we r f****d

[bwfcbob123]

well said we r f****d

Well said.

[RustyMcHayes]

Owen Coyle, take your 442 and fcúk off back to Scotland (0r Burnley) you stubborn cnut. Actually I don't know if it is stubbornness or just plain stupidity.  Either way he can fcúk off. That is the end of the line for me today.
Nobody in their right mind can possibly defend what I witnessed today. Absolute disgrace.

[Squidgy]

Today was the golden three points.

We're fúcked.

[xmiles]

Chris you can't argue with the stats that Jimbo produced. When Muamba plays for 90 minutes we have won 5 out of 8 and lost only once; when he didn't play or was substituted we have lost 16 out of 17 games. Yet Coyle choses not to play him. Genius or stupidity? Others have already made the point about 4-4-2. No intelligent person would have ignored the evidence but Coyle chooses to do so. Whatever his reasons are, they make no sense and he simply won't admit he is wrong. It is always a couple of soft goals we have conceded (i.e. the players fault) never his wretched team selection or tactical ineptitude. The sooner he goes the better.

[Martinbwfc]

I'm not saying we should be playing 442!

What I'm saying is, there would have been a reason that he went with what he did today. If he doesn't like Muamba and that's why he was dropped then fair enough, Coyle's a dick, but until that's proven, he's gone into a game with an attacking formation (all be it with KD) against a club sitting bottom of the league and it's not worked.

Sorry about my spelling mistakes, sir.

Stop defending the undefendable, I hated Megson with a passion, but right now I would have him back over an incompetent, and quite clearly a thick as pig shíte sweaty who thinks it's a great idea to have KD in from the start.

[RustyMcHayes]

We've been here before, the first sign of a truly shite manager is when they start to blame the players. He's been doing that for the last month. I still maintain that this squad is easily good enough to stay up, even without Lee & Holden. This scottish cretin just doesn't understand the basics of football.

It's as simple as this. Games of football are won and lost in central midfield. If you start with 2 players playing against 3 then, unless 1 of the 2 players is world class, you are going to struggle. It's simple maths - 3 is better than 2, it is the higher number Owen, do you understand this? No, OK get out of my football club then.

Oh goody the lowlights are just coming on MOTD now.

[RustyMcHayes]

I feel sick.

[LightningBolton]

I was as angry & confused as everyone else by today's selection & performance. I did have a feeling we'd lose beforehand simply because I saw Ricketts interviewed on Football Focus & every time a player is interviewed or tweeting crap before a match we lose. They should be banned from doing it.

Coyle's ideal philosophy is to play 4-4-2 (he got praised to the hilt for it at Burnley) & he thought today he'd show how well it could work as we'd beat Wigan no matter what. He was obviously wrong to underestimate them.

This is why I still have a smidgen of hope. Even that stubborn Scottish bastard must finally have undeniable proof that we do not have the players for 4-4-2. .
After all, if we can't beat the bottom club at home who the hell can we beat with it? Surely even he can no longer deny the performances are much better playing 4-5-1.

So I don't think he'll start with 4-4-2 again this season (unless he really is more stubborn than Stubborn McStubborn of Stubbornville or mentally ill).

If Muamba didn't play because he was late then he'll be back in the team against Chelsea. Those stats are staggering (although do remember that in a lot of the games he was subbed in we were already dead & buried).
As Manny says we still have our relegation rivals to play & we have more fixtures against bottom half teams than they do.
If we can get Ream playing instead of Zat Shite (that second goal wouldn't have happened if anyone with the slightest bit of defensive nous was playing instead of that donkey) & the players perform to the level they did against Pool etc. & Mr Myagi gets more game time then I still think we can stay up.

A lot of ifs but there's still twists to be had in this season yet & for some reason I feel it could still end up in our favour. After all, everyone had given up in December when we were rock bottom & look what happened, so who knows.

And besides, I really don't want to start contemplating now what will happen if we do go down.

I await the abusive responses 

[azreal88]

4-4-2 regularly does okay against 4-5-1 at various levels of football.  You don't need a world class player to make it work.  What you need, at this level (any level, but it's more true here), is the right combination of players.

The 4-4-2 Coyle puts out is suicide, as is playing long-ball in that system; where is the runner for the second ball in a 4-4-2?  You need strikers (or at least a striker) in 4-4-2 who can get in behind and is a real goal threat - not applicable here.  You need one wide player who can offer to be the "third man" in the midfield by cutting inside, a wide midfielder rather than a winger - also not applicable.  There's a list of other failings,but we've done them to death this season.

Don't blame 4-4-2 for this one, just blame Coyle.  I will continue to support him at games, for as long as he's got the job, but this loss is all of his own making.  He got pretty much everything wrong.

[christyldesley]

I just can't believe that people are counting us out already! Idiotic.

[RustyMcHayes]

4-4-2 regularly does okay against 4-5-1 at various levels of football.
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Can I have examples please Azreal?

[bwfcbob123]

I just can't believe that people are counting us out already! Idiotic.

Sorry, but did you actually watch the match yesterday?

[azreal88]

Can I have examples please Azreal?

Sure.  Watch games in the Championship and League One.

*edit* As a specific example, I'm told (didn't watch the game) that Hull played Bristol City off the park today playing 4-4-2 against a lone-striker system.

[RustyMcHayes]

Exactly, in the lower leagues only, unfortunately we are in the Prem, so my point still stands.

From what I have seen over the past few seasons, there's only the big boys that ever go with 2 out and out strikers, and usually one of them, Rooney for example, drops deeper and links up the play from midfield. When was the last time you saw an International team play a flat 442, well I'll tell you, it was England in the last world cup, and we all know what happened there.

How did we line up under Big Sam, our most successful period in modern times? It's no coincidence surely.

Barcelona are, tactically, one step further ahead of everybody else, with their false number 9 system, which actually means they don't play with an out and out striker and effectively have 6 in midfield, which in mind is partly why they overrun the opposition so easily (obviously a team full of world class helps aswell). I bet you in 10 years time there will be loads of teams playing this way.

I hope I'm not coming across as an argumentative prick here, I just feel very strongly about this point. 442 is dead in modern top flight football.

[azreal88]

4-4-2, in the way Owen wants to play it, has been dead at this level for a while.

Spurs are a good example of making it work, even before they had top-class players.  I wrote a match report, but as it's on a 'rival' site I won't link it, but I've expressed my views on the 4-4-2 there.  It's entirely wrong for this squad,and if it's to be used at all in this league then a wide player and a forward need to shift into midfield when bodies are needed.  Rigid systems, of any kind, are no longer the way to go.

For 4-4-2, one of the wide players needs to be an optional midfielder - which is exactly how Spurs have operated their 4-4-2.  Then you either use it more as a 4-4-1-1 (as when VDV plays for them) or you go 4-4-2 and one striker drops off to link-up and one runs the line to stretch play.

The issue is flexibility, more than anything.  Coyle's version of 4-4-2, with rigid positions and two wingers, is suicide.......any half-decent (or, as Wigan showed, crap) side can play round our lot like they're not there.

[RustyMcHayes]

Spurs are a good reference, but I noted even they went 451 at Liverpool last Monday, which resulted in a surprise boring 0-0. So even gung-ho Harry is cottoning on to the fact that you can't go for the win in every game, you sometimes just have to try and grind out a draw, which is exactly what we should have done at Norwich, before numb nuts went 442.

Anyway we are as near to agreeing as we can be over this so I bid you good night sir.

[azreal88]

Regards.