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Big_Sharps
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« Reply #1 on: 09 December 2011, 02:24 PM » |
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Means he largely is unprotected and we need to defend better as a team, did you remember to exclude the goals Bogdan conceeded? |
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Le God
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« Reply #2 on: 09 December 2011, 02:28 PM » |
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Time to get Bogdan in and if possible, O Halloran.
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jayjay23
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« Reply #3 on: 09 December 2011, 02:34 PM » |
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It is based just on Jussi. I didn't do the math.
Letting in almost 40% of shots is not the defenders fault really. Yes we have had a lot of shots coming in but if Jussi's number of saves per shots was better we would concede less. Although there is the argument that Jussi will have to deal with too many OGSO shots as opposed to other keepers who will be getting a lot of bread and butter saves from defenders forcing shots from long range or wider angles. However, Jussi is conceding a lot of near post and knee dropping goals.
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Gloria Stitz
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« Reply #4 on: 09 December 2011, 02:38 PM » |
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Stats mean nothing to me.
Jaaskelainen isn't a big weak link in our side at all in my opinion. He's not the reliable figure he once was but the goalkeeper position should be the least of Coyle's worries. I certainly wouldn't give Bogroll too many more opportunities.
Thanks for reading,
Gloria.
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Big_Sharps
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« Reply #5 on: 09 December 2011, 02:38 PM » |
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It is based just on Jussi. I didn't do the math.
Letting in almost 40% of shots is not the defenders fault really. Yes we have had a lot of shots coming in but if Jussi's number of saves per shots was better we would concede less. Although there is the argument that Jussi will have to deal with too many OGSO shots as opposed to other keepers who will be getting a lot of bread and butter saves from defenders forcing shots from long range or wider angles. However, Jussi is conceding a lot of near post and knee dropping goals.
Are you on Drugs? The defending team's first job is to stop the opposition getting shots off or at the very least putting the attacker under pressure to nullify the shot, how the hell is that statistic just the goalkeepers fault? |
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jayjay23
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« Reply #6 on: 09 December 2011, 03:23 PM » |
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Are you on Drugs?
The defending team's first job is to stop the opposition getting shots off or at the very least putting the attacker under pressure to nullify the shot, how the hell is that statistic just the goalkeepers fault?
Do you not understand stats Sharps? The chart that puts him in 16th is based on a percentage of how many shots he saves compared to how many he does not save. Of course he will have had to deal with more incoming shots than a team with a better defence but that is accounted for by putting it as a percentage. The percentage narrows it down to how many shots he would save compared to other keepers if every keeper had 100 shots against them. In Jussi's case he would save 62 of 100 shots. DeGea would save 79 of 100. So if Bolton defenders let the opposition get in 300 shots in the season Jussi (on current form) will let in 114 goals. If Man Utd defenders let the opposition take the same number of shots in the season they will concede 63 goals. So that compares the two keepers together - nothing to do with how good the defence is. |
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« Last Edit: 09 December 2011, 03:26 PM by jayjay23 »
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aarons2009
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« Reply #7 on: 09 December 2011, 03:47 PM » |
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What are you trying to get out of this thread, of course he is going to be somewhere like 16th in the charts he is playing in a side that is 19th in the league.
It has quite a bit to do with how the defence is, if they are not defending well then the opposition are obviously going to get more shots/headers on goal.
Al habsi isn't exactly covering himself in glory this season from some of the higlights I have seen of wigan this season so I still think we have the best goalkeeper out of the 2.
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We're the one and only Wanderers!
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Big_Sharps
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« Reply #8 on: 09 December 2011, 03:48 PM » |
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What are you trying to get out of this thread, of course he is going to be somewhere like 16th in the charts he is playing in a side that is 19th in the league.
It has quite a bit to do with how the defence is, if they are not defending well then the opposition are obviously going to get more shots/headers on goal.
Al habsi isn't exactly covering himself in glory this season from some of the higlights I have seen of wigan this season so I still think we have the best goalkeeper out of the 2.
But the stats. |
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aarons2009
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« Reply #9 on: 09 December 2011, 03:49 PM » |
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But the stats.
Haha, balls to stats what have they ever proved.  |
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We're the one and only Wanderers!
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jayjay23
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« Reply #10 on: 09 December 2011, 04:25 PM » |
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What are you trying to get out of this thread, of course he is going to be somewhere like 16th in the charts he is playing in a side that is 19th in the league.
It has quite a bit to do with how the defence is, if they are not defending well then the opposition are obviously going to get more shots/headers on goal.
Al habsi isn't exactly covering himself in glory this season from some of the higlights I have seen of wigan this season so I still think we have the best goalkeeper out of the 2.
All I was doing was posting the results that I found on MSN. Just out of interest. FWIW I think there is often more to a performance than stats can show. But again I think you are misunderstanding the way it is worked out that's all I am trying to point out... A keeper could be top of the chart even if he conceded 100 goals. He could also be top of the chart if he had the worst defence in the premier league. He could also be top of the keeper chart even if bottom of the Premiership. Obviously the number of shots against a keeper is likely to result in a higher goal tally against in most circumstances. But if we were just looking at goals conceded then all we would have to do is rate each keeper by goals against but that would not be fair on the keeper. *********** For example... If I take twenty penalties against you and I score 8 - and you save 12. And then you take 10 penalties against me and you score 7 and I save 3. Who is the better keeper? The one who saved more or the one who conceded less? Answer: The one who saved more. But what about if Bolton let attackers have 200 shots. Jussi saves 50% of them. So he saves 100 and 100 go in. And United defenders let attackers only get in 100 shots. (So the United keeper has had 100 less shos to deal with) and he saves 65 of them. Well Jussi has saved 100 shots and United keeper saved 65. Does that make Jussi better? No. Man United keeper has saved 65% and Jussi only 50% of the shots against him. ******** So that's all I was trying to say before. How many shots the defenders let the attackers have does not affect how good the keepers rating is. Just like - same number of shots as above... Jussi 200 shots against. Concedes 50 goals. Degea 100 shots against concedes 49 or even 51 goals. Jussi = better keeper even though Degea had less shots to deal with because his defence is better. And regardless of whether he conceded more or less than Jussi over all. |
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GarethWilliams
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« Reply #11 on: 09 December 2011, 05:20 PM » |
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Dont need statistics, he has been poor for 2 seasons, of course Coyle can't see that. We had a great replacement but more or less gave him away. If we do believe the stats and there is no reason to doubt them, any shot on goal has a good chance of hitting the net.
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« Last Edit: 09 December 2011, 05:24 PM by GarethWilliams »
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Bolton Wanderers 1970-71
Left to right:
Back row: Ron Phillips, Alan Boswell, John Ritson, Peter Clarke, John Hulme, Paul Jones..
Middle row: Eddie Hopkinson (Trainer), Charlie Hurley, Roy Greaves, Gareth Williams, Don McAllister, Paul Hallows, Arthur Marsh, John Manning, Jim Conway (Coach).
Front row: Warwick Rimmer, John Byrom, Paul Fletcher, Garry Jones, Jimmy Meadows (Team Manager), Jim Redfern, Ian Seddon, Chris Duffy, Roger Hunt.
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Keegan
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« Reply #12 on: 09 December 2011, 06:04 PM » |
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Time to get Bogdan in and if possible, O Halloran.
O'Halloran is a striker. I suspect you mean Lainton. |
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"I will love the light for it shows me the way, yet I will endure the darkness because it shows me the stars.”
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Le God
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« Reply #13 on: 09 December 2011, 06:14 PM » |
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O'Halloran is a striker. I suspect you mean Lainton.
Nah; he's another of JayJay's favourites to put in his line ups. Thats why i mentioned him. But chuck him in goal if he wants a shot! |
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ReebokTrotter
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« Reply #14 on: 09 December 2011, 06:56 PM » |
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Stats mean nothing to me.
Me too. You can make any argument out of statistics depending on your outlook. I mean, statistically speaking, all things being equal, fat people use more soap. |
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Why do we experiment on animals when there are so many lawyers ?
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ShootNaka
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« Reply #15 on: 10 December 2011, 04:11 AM » |
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I't doesn't bother me, the differentiation in goalkeeper quality is not as important as other positions in my opinion.
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GarethWilliams
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« Reply #16 on: 10 December 2011, 07:37 AM » |
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I't doesn't bother me, the differentiation in goalkeeper quality is not as important as other positions in my opinion.
Really? I would say it as important as a top class striker. |
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Bolton Wanderers 1970-71
Left to right:
Back row: Ron Phillips, Alan Boswell, John Ritson, Peter Clarke, John Hulme, Paul Jones..
Middle row: Eddie Hopkinson (Trainer), Charlie Hurley, Roy Greaves, Gareth Williams, Don McAllister, Paul Hallows, Arthur Marsh, John Manning, Jim Conway (Coach).
Front row: Warwick Rimmer, John Byrom, Paul Fletcher, Garry Jones, Jimmy Meadows (Team Manager), Jim Redfern, Ian Seddon, Chris Duffy, Roger Hunt.
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ShootNaka
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« Reply #17 on: 10 December 2011, 12:11 PM » |
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Really? I would say it as important as a top class striker.
It's nice coming on here and seeing that i've posted coherentley when pished. I just think you can afford to have a slightly lesser keeper and not stick out as much as a poorer man in the centre of defence or a striker that can't finish. We have all 3 of those and then some more anyway though so it doesn't really matter. |
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Jimbo
Moderator
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Posts: 467
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« Reply #18 on: 10 December 2011, 12:46 PM » |
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That is the silliest use of stats I've seen in a while.
Scenzsny (18th) is below Jussi, and has been one of the better keepers in the Premier League this year. Petr Cech is 19th! Robinson is 20th. All much better keepers than De Gea (1st), Vorm (3rd) or Hennessey (9th)
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Back and better than ever. Got a knack of making things better.
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Le God
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« Reply #19 on: 10 December 2011, 06:43 PM » |
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Vorm has been pretty good this season all things considered.
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GarethWilliams
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« Reply #20 on: 11 December 2011, 08:51 AM » |
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It's nice coming on here and seeing that i've posted coherentley when pished.
I just think you can afford to have a slightly lesser keeper and not stick out as much as a poorer man in the centre of defence or a striker that can't finish. We have all 3 of those and then some more anyway though so it doesn't really matter.
Whilst I respect your views and would never criticise a sensible comment I cant agree, I go back to the game at Wolves many years ago (was it the play off semis?) The Wolves fans where singing Peter Shiltons One Man Army, The return leg was a different affair. |
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Bolton Wanderers 1970-71
Left to right:
Back row: Ron Phillips, Alan Boswell, John Ritson, Peter Clarke, John Hulme, Paul Jones..
Middle row: Eddie Hopkinson (Trainer), Charlie Hurley, Roy Greaves, Gareth Williams, Don McAllister, Paul Hallows, Arthur Marsh, John Manning, Jim Conway (Coach).
Front row: Warwick Rimmer, John Byrom, Paul Fletcher, Garry Jones, Jimmy Meadows (Team Manager), Jim Redfern, Ian Seddon, Chris Duffy, Roger Hunt.
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DaveBWFC
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« Reply #21 on: 11 December 2011, 11:59 AM » |
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(was it the play off semis?)
Yes. They won 2-1. Steve Bullshit and Mark Venus for them and McAteer for us. |
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H. Pedersen
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« Reply #22 on: 21 December 2011, 09:26 PM » |
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Luis Suarez wins a penalty when his overhead kick is handled by Gary Caldwell, but Charlie Adam's spot-kick is saved by Ali Al-Habsi. The Oman keeper is playing out of his skin tonight.  |
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aarons2009
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« Reply #23 on: 21 December 2011, 10:34 PM » |
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Don't get to upset Ped, he didn't exactly have to make any world class saves tonight and the penalty was just hit with venom straight at him....nothing out of this world.
Was a good game to be fair and wigan deserved a point.
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H. Pedersen
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« Reply #24 on: 21 December 2011, 11:02 PM » |
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I still wish Ali was our number one.
Thanks for reading,
Henrik
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