Can we blame the big six?

[jayjay23]

We keep losing. We keep blaming it on the fact that we are playing the big six. But after playing so many games against the top teams should we not have expected at least one upset or even a decent fighting attempt?

Arsenal have been beaten by Blackburn and held to a draw by Newcastle, as well as being hammered by Chelsea and United. Tonked us. Could have been 6.

Man Utd drew 1-1 with Stoke. And West Brom were plucky in the opening day against ManU, unlucky to go down 2-1. At least they didn't wimp out of it. Tonked us. Could have been 9.

Chelsea held to 0-0 by Stoke. But also had a fight on their hands to beat battling WBA and Sunderland. Even Norwich put up a good fight against them despite losing 3-1. Tonking us next week.

Liverpool, beaten by Stoke. Almost turned over by Wolves. Tonked us. Could have been 5. At least.

Man City. 2-2 with Fulham. Tonked us. 3-2 but it could have been 12 - 1 to be honest.

And a few League Cup games have proved difficult for the big clubs too.

***********

So why can BWFC never put up a good fight against the big boys? We seem to get hammered every time we play one of them. We never look in with a chance or up for the fight. Look at the way Stoke, Fulham, West Brom, even QPR and Norwich put up heroic performances against the big clubs, even if they come out losing they at least come out fighting and having given everything.

We look at thise games and say "Meh, but it was the big four, we can't expect point off them" ! But it is not just about points, believe it or not. Yes points keep you up but fighting spirit and belief keeps you going. If we could rattle a few of the big cages we could take heart from those games and go into the smaller games with more passion and belief.

Do we just not have the players or the ability to do it or is it something else?

Should Bolton Wanderers fans be expecting bigger and better efforts from the team, even against the top clubs? Stoke and others can do it. Why can't we? Are we not as good as they are? I would be perfectly happy to lose 3-1 against Chelsea as long as my team had played with drive, enthusiasm, passion and determination. As long as Coyle had sent a team out we could believe in instead of one we feel the need to grumble about under our breath at kick off. As long as we go in fighting and come out having given our all. Having had something to shout about. Some near misses. Some great play. Some bad decisions by the ref that cost us. Anything... As long as it's not a roll over and die display.

[Natasha Whittam]

So why can BWFC never put up a good fight against the big boys? We seem to get hammered every time we play one of them. We never look in with a chance or up for the fight. Look at the way Stoke, Fulham, West Brom, even QPR and Norwich put up heroic performances against the big clubs, even if they come out losing they at least come out fighting and having given everything.

Simple, a complete lack of commitment to Bolton Wanderers FC.

These players don't care whether they win or lose, they get handsomely rewarded whatever the outcome. And they know the manager isn't going to come down on them when they do underperform so where is the incentive?

We have gone soft on our footballers, and every one of us is guilty to some extent. I've seen post after post on here from wankers defending these twats and I'm sick of it. Money is killing the game, in 10 years football will be a non-contact sport and pisspoor players like Zat Knight will be getting £1m per minute to kick the ball into the stand.

Coyle out. Footballers out.

[jayjay23]

Footballers out!

Like.

[Le God]

They don't care enough simple.

Look at Everton yesterday, yeah they lost but they gave it a blood and thunder performance to be proud of.

City players will be bruised and battered today; arsenal probably didn't even break a sweat.

[largehat]

We keep losing. We keep blaming it on the fact that we are playing the big six. But after playing so many games against the top teams should we not have expected at least one upset or even a decent fighting attempt?

I class the Man City game as a decent fighting attempt. Yes, they could have scored more than the 3 they did, but the team fought that day, no question in my mind. City were unstoppable. They murdered Tottenham at White Hart Lane 6 days later.

[Outpost]

"These players don't care whether they win or lose, they get handsomely rewarded whatever the outcome." The handsome rewards are true for all Prem players, Nat. Why have ours become so spineless ?  Is it all Coyle's attitude ?

Just a quick word on where top football is heading : An article in today's IoS points out that so many good young British players are joining the big 4-5 clubs and getting lost in the system ..... loaned out here & there, left in the Reserves for months on end, and the occasional lucky one will maybe get a break in the 1st team when he's 22 or so. The journo's answer ?   Let the big 4-5 clubs play their reserve teams in the Championship or League-1, where it's more competitive. Maybe we should let them play their 3rd teams in the next league down too. In fact, why not let them have a dozen teams each and take over the leagues - I'm sure they could afford it.
The remaining 85-86 Prem & League clubs ?   Oh, funny you should ask; he didn't mention them.
Maybe stopping the big 4-5 clubs signing so many young players would make more football sense, but that's a big no-no.

[largehat]

Outpost, I totally agree. The issue was debated on 5Live the other day - that we should let the very big clubs enter a B team into the football league, like they do in Spain, but not allow them to be promoted beyond the Championship.

I am so angry at the idea that Man United and Man City could be allowed to do this, it makes me sick. It's completely against the history and tradition of the game, it serves only to reinforce the supremacy of the richest clubs, it is favouritism and it is an insult to the rest of the league.

If the alternative is that the England national team continues to struggle and some young English players have to go out on loan to get experience, then so be it.

[Bribey]

To be honest with you I do think that the Bolton squad is much to blame for our recent poor form. That being said I think the Premier League is stronger than it has been in decades and that staying in this league will require alot more out of us than it has in the past few years.

[Natasha Whittam]

That being said I think the Premier League is stronger than it has been in decades and that staying in this league will require alot more out of us than it has in the past few years.

I totally disagree with this.

The Premier League is currently the weakest it's ever been. In fact, the whole of football is considerably weaker than it once was. Fitter and stronger, yes......but better? No.

The Bolton team that went down after its first season in the Premiership in the mid-90's would piss all over this current Bolton team.

[Jamster26]

It's getting harder for clubs like us to compete, due the financial muscle of the other clubs. It's more difficult in that respect.

Still think we'll be ok this season. We're not a bottom three side.

[Dunkels King]

We're not a bottom three side.

I remember that being said about Forest, Leeds, West Ham, Chelsea, Sheff Wednesday etc.....

[Bribey]

I totally disagree with this.

The Premier League is currently the weakest it's ever been. In fact, the whole of football is considerably weaker than it once was. Fitter and stronger, yes......but better? No.

The Bolton team that went down after its first season in the Premiership in the mid-90's would piss all over this current Bolton team.

As much as I respect your opinion I completely disagree. While I did enjoy watching 90's and 80's football more, I don't think that those teams would be even close to competing with current premier league squads. I don't think that this is a neccassarily strong Bolton team, but the fact that it is no longer the Big Four and is now The Big Six, and the amount of money that is being invested from traditionally smaller clubs like QPR, Stoke, etc, has made the Premier League this year significantly more competitive than years past.

[wanderlust]

Think that a cap on the number of young players each club can sign per annum is an excellent idea. Kids will obviously want to play for e.g. Manure, so they have the pick of young talent, then loan them out so they don't have to even pay their wages. If they're any good they take them back when the time is right, and if not, they sell them - often to clubs they've been on loan at. Net effect of all this is that the "big clubs" deprive other clubs of the opportunity to develop young talent, yet don't have to pay for the privelege/advantage it gives them.
A cap would make sense.

[Natasha Whittam]

the amount of money that is being invested from traditionally smaller clubs like QPR, Stoke, etc, has made the Premier League this year significantly more competitive than years past.

I've moved this onto its own thread. But for the record I wasn't saying the current Premier League was less competitive, I was saying the quality of football on offer is of a lower standard.