Where will Alonso play?

[jimbo_bwfc]

Why is Holden being written off?

He's had two games. Both of them good performances.

Certainly not banking on him to drive us forward like Nolan/Okocha did in their primes but he definitely has something about him.

[Chris Rabz]

Oh you know the rule as well as I do Jimbo, two or three games is plenty indication whether a player is good enough for us or not!

[Le God]

Why is Holden being written off?

He's had two games. Both of them good performances.

Certainly not banking on him to drive us forward like Nolan/Okocha did in their primes but he definitely has something about him.

Okocha was dreadful for us for half a season! And yep, you've guessed it got almost universal derision from everyone sat near me every time he touched the ball.

"shíte, he's crap"
"Waste of time, get him off"
"He's lightweight" (The classic muppets line)

then when he kept us up...

"fookin legend"

Fickle, know it all, morons.

[Howfen White]

In answer to the thread question, I can't see him playing anywhere other than left back. IMO left mid is our strongest and most well stocked position so I can't see him getting a game there. I would expect him to get 15/20 minutes or so in place of Paul Robinson to start off with and if he impresses, to become first choice.

[Sluffy]

Think you might be missing my point Howfen.

If we are drawing or losing a game it would be unlikely that Coyle would go to the trouble of using one of his substitutions to bring on a left back for another left back - hopefully he will be trying to chase the game to get a goal back - agreed?

If we are drawing - he is unlikely to change the defence about either - agree?

If we are getting hammered then yes he night swap full backs - but do you want Alonso playing 20 mins or so in a team that is being battered - agree?

So the only time I can see him being used as a sub is when we are winning by two goals or more with 20 minutes or so to go - agree?

Well how often will that be happening next season - not often - agree?

So back to my original question - Where will Alonso play - because I can't see him getting much if any playing time at full back anytime soon!

[azreal88]

//If we are drawing or losing a game it would be unlikely that Coyle would go to the trouble of using one of his substitutions to bring on a left back for another left back //

Actually, I could.  Alonso plays on the wing too, so it would make a lot of sense to take off Robinson if we were lacking attacking threat (Robinson offers no threat going forward) for a youngster who can get up and provide balls into the box.  Having him there at least increases our tactical options.

[Howfen White]

Think you might be missing my point Howfen.

If we are drawing or losing a game it would be unlikely that Coyle would go to the trouble of using one of his substitutions to bring on a left back for another left back - hopefully he will be trying to chase the game to get a goal back - agreed?

If we are drawing - he is unlikely to change the defence about either - agree?

If we are getting hammered then yes he night swap full backs - but do you want Alonso playing 20 mins or so in a team that is being battered - agree?

So the only time I can see him being used as a sub is when we are winning by two goals or more with 20 minutes or so to go - agree?

Well how often will that be happening next season - not often - agree?

So back to my original question - Where will Alonso play - because I can't see him getting much if any playing time at full back anytime soon!

I don't know enough about Coyle's tactical decisions to know whether he will actually have some common sense and bring off a defender for an attacker, something Megson never did, but you're right with that point.

Another point to consider, do you think Coyle rates Robinson and Jlloyd Samuel? I have my doubts over whether he does, especially with Samuel. I know Alonso's only a young player but I can't see why he would pursue a player who he doesn't see becoming the first-choice left back at this club, especially when he already has two players in that position as it is.

[Sluffy]

//If we are drawing or losing a game it would be unlikely that Coyle would go to the trouble of using one of his substitutions to bring on a left back for another left back //

Actually, I could.  Alonso plays on the wing too, so it would make a lot of sense to take off Robinson if we were lacking attacking threat (Robinson offers no threat going forward) for a youngster who can get up and provide balls into the box.  Having him there at least increases our tactical options.

So you would play both Petrov and Alonso attacking down the left flank?

Seems to me we would be leaving a very big hole behind them for the opposition to exploit then.

[Howfen White]

So you would play both Petrov and Alonso attacking down the left flank?

Seems to me we would be leaving a very big hole behind them for the opposition to exploit then.

I know nothing about Alonso so I don't know if he's better attacking or defending or what, so I can't answer that. I don't think he will be first choice to start off with but I'm sure there are going to be more than enough games where we get battered, or we're in a comfortable lead (definitely less of the latter!) where Alonso can get some playing time.

[Bazzabomb]

So you would play both Petrov and Alonso attacking down the left flank?

Seems to me we would be leaving a very big hole behind them for the opposition to exploit then.

It could be a possible option for home games when it's up to us to have a go at teams.

[azreal88]

So you would play both Petrov and Alonso attacking down the left flank?

Seems to me we would be leaving a very big hole behind them for the opposition to exploit then.

When you are behind in a game you might as well go for it.

[Sluffy]

Oh, I don't doubt that it is felt that Alonso will do great things when he is established in the team - I just can't see how a player new to the Premiership with little playing experience other than in the Spanish second division can make that jump though?

Maybe I missing something?

[Sluffy]

When you are behind in a game you might as well go for it.

Oh, I fully agree - but what's the point in playing two left wingers (in effect) - with bugger all behind them - if I was the opposition and just won the ball I know exactly the area where I'd be counter-attacking and exploiting!

[azreal88]

Oh, I fully agree - but what's the point in playing two left wingers (in effect) - with bugger all behind them - if I was the opposition and just won the ball I know exactly the area where I'd be counter-attacking and exploiting!

But it isn't two left wingers.  It's a winger and a wingback.  It's the difference between the attacking advantage you get in having Ashley Cole at leftback rather than Joleon Lescott.  It also allows the winger to push inside and get into the box when your side has the ball.

[Bwfc4eva]

I'm happy with the signings, they are all good passing players, which is what we need if Coyle wants to achieve his ambitions of nice football.

[Sluffy]

But it isn't two left wingers.  It's a winger and a wingback.  It's the difference between the attacking advantage you get in having Ashley Cole at leftback rather than Joleon Lescott.  It also allows the winger to push inside and get into the box when your side has the ball.

I  know - that's why I put the 'in effect' bit in brackets.

Maybe that is what the longer term plan is - because Coyle as brought in both these left sided players - with the intent that they will be regulars in the same side - but to me I just see a massive liability until Alonso has learned his trade in the Premiership - and that of course can only be by actually playing.

I can understand them playing together during a full game - ie Petrov dropping back a bit when Alonso goes past him - but to have the two of them attacking together smacks to me of desperation and a massive and easily hole to exploit behind them on the counter attack.

But then again what do I know?

[Chris Rabz]

But then again what do I know?

No less than the rest of us amateurs.

[azreal88]

but to have the two of them attacking together smacks to me of desperation and a massive and easily hole to exploit behind them on the counter attack.

Well, yeah.  You said you couldn't see him bringing on a left-back for a left-back if we were behind.  I said i could.

If we needed to go all-out attack in the latter stages what is the point in worrying about counters?  If you're two down with 10 minutes to go I'd rather attack than be conservative and take the loss.

[jimbo_bwfc]

Depends how Alonso copes with life in the Premier League.

It's an easy statement to make that he won't be able to get back and defend, and that Petrov will be poor covering and we'll be exploited. On paper and from what people have told us, both are weak defensivley. But especially in Alonso's case, none of us have seen the lad play. I imagine Coyle brought him in with a view to playing him at some point this season.

Look at Lee, everyone quickly made a judgement looking at him saying, he'll be too lightweight. I think similar quick judgements could be made with Alonso.

I definitely think we should start with Robbo as he is more of a known quantity. However if Alonso does the business in training, I'm sure Coyle won't be afraid to throw him straight in at the deep end.

[Chris Rabz]

Nobody knows with Alonso because no-one has seen him play. We can make judgements about Petrov because not only has he featured regularly, but in our league, so we have a decent frame of reference there. But with Alonso we simply won't know until we see him.

[Sluffy]

Well, yeah.  You said you couldn't see him bringing on a left-back for a left-back if we were behind.  I said i could.

If we needed to go all-out attack in the latter stages what is the point in worrying about counters?  If you're two down with 10 minutes to go I'd rather attack than be conservative and take the loss.

I would like to think Coyle would make better use of his bench in such circumstances than to consider the answer is replacing a left back for another left back (call it wing back if you will) - whilst presumably still having Petrov and Lee on the pitch.

Not much point in scoring two goals in the last ten minutes if we also concede another goal or two ourselves whilst doing so.

I'm sure Coyle as got a plan for brining through Alonso - it's just that I can't figure out what it is!

[azreal88]

I would like to think Coyle would make better use of his bench in such circumstances than to consider the answer is replacing a left back for another left back (call it wing back if you will) - whilst presumably still having Petrov and Lee on the pitch.

I don't see why having Lee and Petrov on the pitch causes an issue when looking to attack from the back.  If you take off Muamba for a striker you still leave us vulnerable.  Any attacking substitution, and any pushing forward to get back in a game, leaves you short at the back or allows the counter......as Arsenal have found out so many times.  Bringing Alonso on for Robinson makes perfect sense if you're looking to increase your attacking options when you haven't had enough chances to get into a game.  Coyle may not do it, but I really don't see why it's such a deadly option in your mind.  Teams push their full-backs forward all the time (Ashley Cole, at times, plays almost as a winger for Chelsea) and it's the centre-backs jobs to cover.  Certainly it makes you less solid at the back, but it's not like your going to suddenly be completely unable to defend.

Bringing on a wingback for a full-back is done quite a lot in Italy and Spain, when goals are needed.  It's a basic tactic.

[Sluffy]

We aren't in Italy and Spain and as for it being the job of our centre backs to cover - well they've just let three in to Oldham!

Coyle know's far more than me and if that's his plan then fair enough - just can't see it myself though.

[azreal88]

We aren't in Italy and Spain and as for it being the job of our centre backs to cover - well they've just let three in to Oldham!

Coyle know's far more than me and if that's his plan then fair enough - just can't see it myself though.

Fair enough.  As I said elsewhere, I expect to see him come on for Petrov more than Robbo; we shall see what happens.

[seahawk88]

Once Robinson has his first shocker (I'm guessing that won't take long) Alonso will be the most popular player on the team.

Let's be honest - to call left back a position of weakness for us would be kind. Nobody is expecting him to be the left-footed Sergio Ramos, but if he gets on the field, and I don't cringe every time he gets the ball or tries to make a tackle, he'll be an upgrade in my book.

Personally I rate Gardner at LB higher than Robinson but whatever.