Where will Alonso play?

[Sluffy]

Yes I know he is a left back - but will Coyle play a 19 year old, who apart from a fleeting moment has never played higher than Spanish second division football - a star at left back position in the vastly different Premier League?

If we put him as sub - do you really think we will bring him on with 20 minutes to go in games - particularly if we are trailing or level (or even just a goal in front!)?

Do we start him in left midfield - if so does Petrov play on the right and Lee dropped?

I've no doubt that he as the pedigree to succeed once he gets established in the side - but how does he become established in the first place?

Do we just put him in, in place of Robinson from the start of the season - is he even up to speed - the season starts in under 3 weeks.

What do we do?

[Le God]

Before anyone says it.

He wont play, he'll be on the bench all season before a stint in the reserves before going back to spain.

but yes... Left back.

[Sluffy]

but yes... Left back.

From the start of the season?

Remember when Megson played our 3 new defenders in the first game of last season!

[Didledee]

Alonso I think will gradually come into the side in his position of left back, Petrov and Lee will be our wingers, Robinson hopefully will move to sub, and hopefully Alonso shows us his ability and makes left back his own.

It's been a problem area, Gardner won player of the year in that position but it's not been right since.

Could always be used/tried as a left winger if Petrov is injured or gets subbed.

[Le God]

From the start of the season?

Remember when Megson played our 3 new defenders in the first game of last season!

nah i dont think he'll start at Fulham; maybe if he's equally adept on the left side of midfield we could give him a go in midfield late in games to start off;

Coyle clearly sees him as a prospect so it might be a fairly long wait until he's starting... if he does.

[azreal88]

At a guess I'd say he'll begin life on the bench with Robinson at left-back.  He'll get sub games, probably coming on for 10 mins or so in place of Petrov at first.  He'll then get the cup games at left-back and eventually starts in the league.

[Big_Sharps]

At a guess I'd say he'll begin life on the bench with Robinson at left-back.  He'll get sub games, probably coming on for 10 mins or so in place of Petrov at first.  He'll then get the cup games at left-back and eventually starts in the league.

I wouldnt disagree with that, if we had signed him earlier then he may have been in with a chance of pushing for a first team place but it makes sense to ease him in as the Premier League is alot different to Spain.

[Sluffy]

So - Petrov to start, Alonso a sub, Blake a sub...  linked only to Nugent - season kicks off in less than 3 weeks.

Poor window so far then?

[Le God]

No the squad is much much better right now... oh hang on... it's not is it.

shíte.

[jimbo_bwfc]

So - Petrov to start, Alonso a sub, Blake a sub...  linked only to Nugent - season kicks off in less than 3 weeks.

Poor window so far then?

Not at all.

We've (as yet) kept our best player in Cahill and we've signed a top player in Petrov. Don't think it can be classed as a bad window when you are look at the sort of business clubs around us are doing.

Think most of our fans will be content with the business done so far, well apart from the idiots who expect us to let 6 or 7 go and buy 6 or 7 better players.

If we don't sign a striker that is a big mark down because that is the one thing we really needed- and have done for a couple of years.

We've got just over a month left now to do two things sign a striker that can contribute 10 goals to the team next season. Try and pawn off all the deadwood. Oh, and if Wilshere becomes available again, which I still think he might, then bring him in.

Manage those first two things and it has to be considered a very good window.

[azreal88]

I pretty much agree with Jimbo.  My only difference is that I still think we need a new option at centre-back.  For all the talk of Knight and Cahill being Coyle's "twin towers" they were shocking together last season and there is no guarantee they will magically develop an understanding.  We need a player who we can rely upon to play a full season at the back if those two can't form a partnership.  We can pretend the defence is fine all we like, it simply isn't.

[Sluffy]

So - and I know things can and do change but - same team as last season plus Petrov (and two subs) - less Klasnic, Wilshere and (Weiss who was a sub really).

Last season we got 21 points under Coyle in 20 Premiership games remember.

Still a good window so far?

[jimbo_bwfc]

(Probably for my stupidity) but I still think AOB could come in and do a job if Knight and Cahill don't gel again.

He made a few high-profile mistakes in 08-09, and with only Shittu and the poster boy for Cancer Research UK* left to come in for him we were very weak.


But if you take a total sum of his Bolton career he has had far more good games than bad ones.

Immense in his first season. Kept us afloat almost single handidly at times.

Whenever he came in since Knight and Cahill have been regulars he has always looked solid and well capable of still mixing it at this level.

*There are no sick jokes about people with cancer before anyone jumps on a bandwagon of indignation.

He has had it in the neck since he first signed for us, fans seeming to have this image of us being too good for him. BS imo.

So - and I know things can and do change but - same team as last season plus Petrov (and two subs) - less Klasnic, Wilshere and (Weiss who was a sub really).

Last season we got 21 points under Coyle in 20 Premiership games remember.

Still a good window so far?

What can we do about that? We knew we'd lose them before the window started. They weren't our players.

That is the thing about taking loans. It is nearly always a short term fix.

Weiss was never going to come back. It was always short term with Wilshere and we aren't going to pay ridiculous 60k wages to a striker of Klasnic's calibre.

Still a good window. You can't expect Coyle to go out and find a 10 goal a season striker for free and find two potentially top players for free.

[Sluffy]

Just trying to put things into perspective.

I know the loan players weren't ours - but the fact remains two of them were regulars in our starting eleven under Coyle - and have been replaced by just Petrov.

All I'm saying at this moment in time we appear to be a weaker team (including our 3 new signings), than a stronger one as compared to the one that managed to average just over a point a game last season.

You could add to the equation that Davis, JOB and Holden are in effect new additions to last season’s team - but will any of them be more than just subs?

I'm sure we will see one or two coming in before the end of the window - but up to now - in my opinion - we are a slightly weaker side than the one we finished with last season.

[azreal88]

//Whenever he came in since Knight and Cahill have been regulars he has always looked solid and well capable of still mixing it at this level.//

I disagree totally with that, to be honest.  I think he had a very solid first season but his cameos in the first team last season were awful.  Aside from personal opinion about his recent games, if Coyle used Ricketts at centre-back I'm not sure we can expect him to rely on AOB this season.

[jimbo_bwfc]

I think we start this season with a much better team than we started last season, and last season I felt with the right manager we'd have been well clear of relegation and should have been looking at a top 12 finish.

People can say what they like about our squad but I'm not having it that the likes of Birmingham, Fulham and even Blackburn have stronger teams than us yet they all finished in the top 12.

We are still missing a goalscorer though to be credible contenders to the top 10. Unless Petrov can either score Klasnic's goals himself, or create double the number of chances for Davies and whoever to be scoring.


Azreal I agree the fact Coyle used Ricketts suggests he doesn't rate AOB. Don't remember all the games he played last season, the only three I can think of on the top of my head are the Fulham game and the Wigan game. Granted he didn't have all that much to do but I thought he looked very assured. Also remember he played in the cup game when we got dicked at Spurs. Won't blame him for that one though. We always struggle.

[azreal88]

//People can say what they like about our squad but I'm not having it that the likes of Birmingham, Fulham and even Blackburn have stronger teams than us yet they all finished in the top 12.//

Absolutely they did.  I'll say exactly what I was saying last summer, we were (and still are, largely) too much of the same.  Megson built a side without flair, without creativity and without the ability to pass.  The only real 'footballer' in the entire side last season (until Coyle showed up) was Lee, and he wasn't ready until later on in the season than we needed. All the sides you mentioned can pass a bit, have some pace and some guile; even Blackburn have Pedersen, Diouf, Dunn etc who can all play football, in spite of what some say about Diouf on here.

You can't go out in the Premiership with no passing ability and retain possession long enough to avoid hammerings.  Megson sold-off our talent and brought in good players, but not good footballers.

[jimbo_bwfc]

Pedersen is useless. Dunn is very good and probably the sort of player we've been missing but he missed chunks of the season out injured.

Birmingham got by with abit of shrewd buying of Ferguson and Bowyer in midfield and a defence of Johnson and Dann. Good base. Most the players around them are very average.

Fulham have a couple of standout stars. Gera/Duff/Murphy in paticular probably make them tick. Zamora had a good season and they had a fairly settled defence but again, with the stability of a manager who knew what he was doing and knew where he wanted to go and what he wanted out of the players, we too could have had much of that.

Fair point about our ball retention. It was/is terrible and the probably the reason we were on the end of so many losses. Whilst the ability of the players is one thing, I also think much of that was down to the philosophy of the manager. Burnley were retaining the ball much better than us and passing it around. They were on the end of the odd dicking but they also gave as good as they got against teams around them. Their players are not techincally any better than ours- safe the fact it is what they work on every week.

We worked on hoofing long balls and being in the right positions to get onto knockdowns. Look for route one football whenever possible.

Could Cahill and Knight pass out from the back? Absoultly. They would if they were in the Arsenal team. They hoofed because that was the instruction.

[azreal88]

//Could Cahill and Knight pass out from the back? Absoultly. They would if they were in the Arsenal team. They hoofed because that was the instruction.//

Absolutely, but nobody is saying Burnley's players are technically better; they were relegated.  The simple fact is that players like Ferguson, Murphy and Dunn are all capable of passing to a very high standard.  None of our midfield were.  Mark Davies' passing was very average, Muamba is good at little short passes (well, he makes them) and Davis can do bits.  The simple fact is that while our defence may be no less technical than other sides', our midfield is/was; as is our forward line.

A midfield of Taylor, Muamba, McCann and Davis (which started last season) playing up to Davies and Elmander is simply not capable of playing a passing game to the level needed......quite apart from the fact we were playing 3 defensive mids.  People can have a go at the system and people being told to "hoof it" but the simple fact is that when you have a team that has all the technical ability torn out of it by a manager who genuinely believes that all a team needs is a good work ethic to win games, then you're going to struggle.  

You could line up our squad next to Fulham, Birmingham et al and count how many decent players each side has and make about the same count; sure.  But that doesn't matter.  It's not about how many decent players you have, it's about having the right balance and the right mix.  If you count Joey O'Brien, we started last season with a squad that had 6 defensive midfielders in it and only two trusted wide players - Taylor and Gardner, both left sided.  Riga wasn't used and Lee wasn't ready.  Our best passing midfielder was Mark Davies, who was unproven and whose passing was average anyway.  Our forwards were slow and lacked support.

As much as the tactics didn't help, we can't pretend we had the players either.

[Jamster26]

I would have thought Coyle will introduce him lightly to get him into the match day swing of things. I can probably see him coming off the bench to replace Petrov on the wing at first before shifting him to Left back.
Maybe the end is near for Gardner....

[Chris Rabz]

In answer to the original post, I think Alonso has only been brought in as a left-back really, and as cover at left-midfield. He probably won't play from the start, you'd think he will need time to acclimatise to the English game. But the first poor game Paul Robinson has will more than likely see Alonso break into the team. I don't want to throw him in too soon though incase he has a couple of poor early games (like Ivan Campo did years ago) and it turns the fans against him.

As for the second question I do like the way things are going. I won't say I'm satisfied overall as Coyle's team isn't what I would describe as "battle-ready" in terms of a full tilt at breaking into the top half. However only the most ambitious of Wanderers actually expected it all to happen in one transfer window.

Firstly the 21 points in 20 games under Coyle is irrelevant now. His job was to survive, and we did. Comfortably in the end. 14th, and never seriously mentioned relegation following the Stoke victory.

Coyle was faced with two major issues heading into this transfer window; he needed to buy, and needed to sell. Not many Premiership managers are capable of selling and buying half a dozen in that timescale. With the budget we're on, and the reported wages of the players we want to offload, it just isn't realistic.

Leaving the club are Vaz Te, McCann, and we've read links for A. O'Brien and J'Lloyd Samuel. It's not bad. It's not easy to convince other clubs to take your players when you deem to not be good enough and only just survive relegation yourself. Even more difficult if they are earning far too much money for their abilities.

Coming in so far we have Petrov, Blake and now Alonso. I don't think that's too bad myself. We've got ourselves a quality player in Petrov and can be pleased with our left-side now. The debate will run and run about Matt Taylor (particularly on here) but he is a fine backup to Petrov. We also have Gardner still, Alonso can also play there.

Alonso, as I mentioned earlier, will take time to bed in. But although he hardly played at Real Madrid, just to be on the bench at a club like that should mean he has something about him and Coyle obviously agrees or he wouldn't have brought him in. So you'd think in the long-term we might just have a very good left side of the team.

Robbie Blake. Now there's a lot who don't like this signing, but I think it isn't too bad. Granted, if it's the only striker we bring in this transfer window then it isn't enough for that position. But I think at the time Coyle had the chance to snap him up, and used it to at least cover the emergency striker position, and I have more faith in Blake to perform than I do Elmander.

I really think if we don't get that striker we all crave though that we could well see a 4-5-1 Bolton next season. But it could be a very different 4-5-1 than what we've been used to. We're all very used to the long ball to Davies and the rest playing off him. But with a central midfield of Muamba, Davis and possibly M Davies/Cohen, but hopefully Wilshere, coupled with Petrov and Lee patrolling the wings, we could see a steely group that could also play some expansive stuff.

We know Muamba's abilities. That was another favourite debate of ours in 09/10. He can't pass, or shoot. But he can defend. Sean Davis can defend and also attack just as well, and he will be like a new signing next season as long as he can steer clear of injury. Mark Davies can attack quite well but still seems a bit wet behind the ears to me. But if we could get Wilshere back into the squad, it could be a really successful area of the field for us.

So yes, overall I am satisfied. Some won't be, and that's their opinion. But a lot of those will be them who expect us to finish 10th or above next season. I think it could happen, but only with a huge slice of luck. If we can get above 13th it will signal a big improvement from the previous regime for me and provide us with a proper foundation to build a long-term top-half Premier League club.

Or if you prefer we can spend money we haven't got to bring in the prized striker, still only finish 11th, and as a result have another period of mediocrity in a few years.

[Pedersen]

I think you need to judge the window in relation to the other clubs. And I think in getting the 3 in we have we've done pretty well.

Obviously we don't know how good Alonso is but reading between the lines he has the potential to be a 20M player in a couple of years, of course potential has to be realised and isn't always but Coyle certainly seems excited.

We need a striker and that won't be easy. But were we to get one we'd have the strongest squad overall we've probably ever gone into a premiership season with. Not necessarily the most quality as under Sam we had small squads with 3 or 4 absolute top quality players but I don't think we're far off those squads. Just that the overall standard is higher so finishing in that top 10 requires more now than it did then!

[MEGSON IS A POPADOM]

But were we to get one we'd have the strongest squad overall we've probably ever gone into a premiership season with.

I disagree here, i think we had much better squads under BIg Sam. I don't feel the midfield is capable yet, i feel we need a player similar to murphy, dunn etc alongside Muamba. Sean Davis, JOB and holden don't fit that bill, however we have so many midfielders that other areas are having to be addressed first. As for Alonso i'm guessing he will be slowly bred into the team.

[bedwetter2]

I'm also fairly certain that Alonso will be introduced gradually with some substitutions, then maybe a full cup game or two before becoming a first team regular.

Regarding the rest of the squad even taking into account the concerns of others about central defence, I'm reasonably happy with it aside from the striker situation. Like him or not, Davies is not going to be able to perform another full season effectively (in my opinion). Blake is just a stopgap and the less that is said of that swedish stump the better. So that leaves us with the square root of nothing for the longer term in terms of experienced strikers.

Are we to rely on Ward? I doubt it. Again it is my opinion but I believe two strikers are required, one being an old fashioned opportunist type like Klasnic and one being an up-and-coming younger guy with real pace. Don't ask where we could get him from unless we are still trying for Alonso's mate Moreno. If so, that would be good.

The removal of the costs attached to Hunt, JlS and Shittu in particular may be enough to secure the services of Klasnic again albeit at a reduced wage and we may then have enough left for a dabble with someone like Moreno.

[Pedersen]

I disagree here, i think we had much better squads under BIg Sam. I don't feel the midfield is capable yet, i feel we need a player similar to murphy, dunn etc alongside Muamba. Sean Davis, JOB and holden don't fit that bill, however we have so many midfielders that other areas are having to be addressed first. As for Alonso i'm guessing he will be slowly bred into the team.

We had individual quality under Sam but we still had Pedersen having to play left back, very little cover in key areas and a reliance on some players to play every game.

We're stronger now, though we don't necessarily have the same quality in all areas.