Academy Shake Up

[Manny]

A Manny exclusive here. I've been at the Reebok all day today with the coaches and apparently there is a conference tomorrow, with Phil Gartside wanting a complete overhaul of how the academy runs.

The coach in question used to work at United and told us how Ryan Shawcross was brilliant until he had a growth spurt at the age of 14. After that, he struggled with muscle development and injuries before eventually leaving for first team football at Stoke as he was well down the pecking order when he turned 18.

They said that United and City get the best kids ( under 8 ) in this area and Bolton couldn't compete. So the best way for us to run is to try and pick up on the 13 and 14 year olds who get released from the top clubs, like we did with Kevin Nolan. United did it with Gibson, Welbeck and Cleverley and all are being promised decent playing time next season.

The main feeling and one that is shared by the fans is that the academy simply isn't producing. We've had plenty who have gone on to make a career in League 1, 2 and the non-league, but what use is that to us. They're happy to have brought players through like Nolan, Hunt, J O'Brien, Vaz Te, Ward, Obadeyi but over the course of a decade, it just isn't enough and they want this to change.

[Howfen White]

So what is the new 'strategy'?

[Manny]

So what is the new 'strategy'?

Well to me it sounds like the teams from age 13 and down have a limited time left and instead we'll be looking to bring in players at around 14 or 15, who aren't deemed good enough for the likes of United, Liverpool etc, but could be good enough to make a career in the top flight.

But only ones who have been there for a while as most kids get snapped up by clubs at age 7 or 8. If a kid manages to stay at a club like United for five of six years, there's a good possibility they'll make it professional at a decent standard.

[azreal88]

Sounds good on paper, but it also seems really defeatist to me.  Simply because we have messed up the younger teams doesn't mean we should give up on them.  Shouldn't we look for the older players AND try to improve the younger teams to compete with bigger clubs.  Man City's youth teams have been very good and they are right next to Utd.........it's surely a question of doing it properly.

[Bwfc4eva]

I dont really see City's acadamy working out, if they are spending god knows what on 'world class' players, then I dont see their youngsters getting a chance.

[azreal88]

I dont really see City's acadamy working out, if they are spending god knows what on 'world class' players, then I dont see their youngsters getting a chance.

That's the point.  When City had sod-all money they started to produce some decent young players because they focused on their academy (they couldn't afford to buy players, so they planned to develop them).  City were not a big club, but they did things well and young players and their parents could see that.

[Manny]

I was told that a club somewhere in Manchester hold trials for 200 people each year. After a weekend, they pick around 30 and put them in a match. After that match, 4 of the "first" team are dropped for not reaching their potential and 4 from the "second" team take their places. The 15 that are picked usually go on to win the league they're in and around half make it into City's academy.

[Sluffy]

City's academy has been the best in the area for donkey's years - going back to the seventies to my knowledge.

Ryan Giggs for example is one of their old boys.

Just a thought about the academy though - perhaps the need for change is financial as much as structural - maybe they are cutting back on some of the coaches and the wage bill?

We are heavily in debt - which does have to be managed, remember.

[azreal88]

There are systems in Spain and Italy whereby trial weekends are held in which all the clubs coaching staff watch hundreds of kids playing multiple games over the two or three days and take the best few youngsters into their academies; in addition to the usual scouting networks at youth level.  It's apparently very successful.

We have nothing like that in England.  It's much less common to see club reps at youth games here than it is in (say) France or Spain.

[Chris Rabz]

It might be a simple thing with BWFC in that whatever it is we are doing with our academy - doesn't work. I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the youngsters simply because there's so many "young prodigies" and they'll become the "new Maradona" or "new Rooney" or new whoever, but as elitist as it sounds, if you can't do it in the Premiership, then I don't want to know - in terms of "the best we've ever had". I'm not saying they aren't good, just not the best.

The trouble with the "Top Four plus Citeh" is that while they do their best to satisfy all public demands by funding these academies... when you see every one of them buying from abroad to fulfill their title ambitions, you can't help but wonder that if they're playing it like that, then what the hell's the point the rest of us raising starlets? Just for them? No, it's not fcuking fair!

The nation (i.e. England) is on its knees because of this, but clubs like Bolton aren't the ones that need the shake up. It needs doing from top to bottom. Us changing this and that won't change anything. Say we get these youngsters at 14. We nurture them, make them as good as a 17/yo can be. If they are that good then one of the top clubs will come in, pay us £1m in compen, and sayonara. It's obliterous.

And before you start, obliterous isn't a word. I invented it as a way to link to oblivion, but no such word existed. If I missed the proper word, I apologise. If I didn't, then credit me forever more.

[traf]

I was told that a club somewhere in Manchester hold trials for 200 people each year. After a weekend, they pick around 30 and put them in a match. After that match, 4 of the "first" team are dropped for not reaching their potential and 4 from the "second" team take their places. The 15 that are picked usually go on to win the league they're in and around half make it into City's academy.

Fletcher Moss FC.

It also happens on City's behalf at North Chaddderton Boys FC.

[azreal88]

I have to say I'm genuinely shocked at the running costs of the place.  Bolton News article:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/8302156.Coyle_gets_tough_over_Academy___s_future_role/?

2mil a year is a figure that I am amazed by.  I had held that Nolan's fee would have covered the running of the academy for some time, but I had though much more than 2 seasons.  I was totally wrong on that one and Coyle is right in what he says, work is needed.  I still don't think it should be ditched and I do think it can work.

[Jamster26]

It is pretty poor, however if you look at the smaller teams in Lancashire; Blackburn, Wigan etc, I think they are pretty much in the same boat as us, in the fact that the bigger, more fashionable clubs pick the best out of the bunch!
Maybe with a new man at the helm, we can somehow entice talented younsters that Bolton Wanders is the place to be.

[Chris Rabz]

I like the fact Coyle wants to sort it out. It remains to be seen whether we'll end up with any results but we have to admit aside from Nolan and Hunt we've had very few prospects come anywhere near the first team for a prolonged period of time. But it would be nice to see the youngsters coming through either for us, or at least to be sold on for a decent profit - which can then be used to buy the better players from outside the club.

[pfk]

I thought that article was quite positive..  It's about time something was done about the academy and the lack of productive players emerging from it.  Its too much money to simply piss away, but I think Coyle has the right mindset to get it on track.

I would love to see more youngsters coming through our ranks.

[Darequam]

Enuf  Youngstars!!! Around me here
If only our academy could produce a player half as good as C-Ronaldo

[Bwfc4eva]

Mark Connolly, Jay Simpson, Adam Bogdan, and Michael O'Halloran are probably the best players we have in the Reserves/Acadamy.

I'm not sure if they will ever make it though.

[azreal88]

//Jay Simpson//

I didn't know we had a Jay Simpson.  Do you mean Javlon Campbell?

[Bwfc4eva]

Sorry, I meant Jack Sampson!

[azreal88]

Sorry, I meant Jack Sampson!

Oh right.  I think he's expected to be stolen isn't he?

[Bwfc4eva]

I dont know, do you mean from a bigger club?

They were rumours ages ago that both Manchester clubs were interested.

[azreal88]

We lost Kyle Bartley to Arsenal, who is very highly rated and looks a top player (got a lot of games at Sheff Utd).  Just hope we can hang on to Sampson if he's as good as is said.

[Bwfc4eva]

We lost Kyle Bartley to Arsenal, who is very highly rated and looks a top player (got a lot of games at Sheff Utd).  Just hope we can hang on to Sampson if he's as good as is said.

He's a powerful centre-forward, to put short, he's well over 6", he's pretty talented as well.

[Le God]

Jack Sampson?

Watched him tonight in the Milk cup final; big powerful lad good target man with a bit of skill.

Certainly didn't set the world alight though, the team were well and truly battered.

Another one of the lads was much better number 7 can't mind his name.

[jimbo_bwfc]

Bogdan...half a chance of making it. Dodgy but still very young. I certainly dont buy into all this, he's going to be better than Jussi and Habsi stuff just yet.

Connolly seems to come highley rated. Probably the best chance out of the academy...and we nicked him from somone elses academy.

Jack Sampson is the big hope although he'll probably not be ready for another 3/4 years- if he's still here at all. O'Halloran is ahead of him at the moment.

Kyle Bartley was a real loss. He could have been fighting it out with Zat Knight for the CB spot. He'll be an Arsenal regular in 2/3 years.

We have a nigerian lad who I'd never heard of before this milk cup. Seemed to score a few. No idea if he's any good.

Tope looks to have been a waste of money.

We have Dennis Irwin's son. Not sure if he's any good though.

Maison McGeechen is a good little player.Would like to see him get a good run in the reserves this season, followed by a pro contract and immidiete loan out to a Lg1/2 club. See where abouts he's at.